Insane Clown Posse battles the FBI in The United States of Insanity doc [Fantastic Fest interview]

Insane Clown Posse is one of the biggest acts on the planet, which might come as a surprise if you aren’t a diehard Juggalo. The clown-faced hip hop duo (made up of Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope) has been at it for decades now, and they’ve amassed a massive and passionate fan base in that time without the traditional support of radio or the press. If mainstream media pays attention to ICP at all, it’s usually to mock them and their fans (see the reaction to the “Magnets” video and Saturday Night Live’s skewering on the band’s annual Gathering of the Juggalos festival).

To ICP’s diehard fans, self-described “Juggalos,” the band is the basis for an entire lifestyle, complete with their own clown face paint and an immediate connection with fellow Juggalos. While it’s easy to look down on a group of people literally made up as clowns, to some members of law enforcement, Juggalos represent a real threat. There have been cases of Juggalos committing heinous crimes allegedly inspired by the band’s macabre and often violent lyrics, which led the band and their fans to suddenly be added to the FBI’s annual gang assessment list a few years back.

That designation identified Juggalos as an organized “gang,” giving law enforcement the right to stop and arrest fans simply for wearing an ICP shirt. Some fans lost their jobs due to their “gang affiliation,” were removed from their military posts, and some even lost custody of their children. After hearing countless stories of fans being unfairly targeted by the police, Insane Clown Posse made headlines worldwide by suing the FBI in an effort to reverse the gang label.

Filmmakers Tom Putnam & Brenna Sanchez spent seven years following the band and Juggalos for The United States of Insanity, a new documentary that showcases the impact of the band on their devout fanbase and the effects the gang designation has had on the band and Juggalos alike.

We spoke with Tom Putnam to discuss how the filmmakers earned the trust of ICP and the Juggalos, his thoughts on the merits of the FBI’s case, and what he learned from the band after spending so long in their world. The United States of Insanity screened at this year’s Fantastic Fest and will screen in over 600 theaters on October 26 via Fathom Events, complete with a special intro and new ICP concert footage. Tickets are available here.

Bad Feeling Magazine: Making this film was a very long process; what first interested you about the band?

Tom Putnam: I directed this film with a filmmaker named Brenna Sanchez. And we’d previously made a film about Detroit firefighters called Burn. She’s from Detroit. We were looking for our next project to do, and she ran across an article about the band. And they were sort of reaching a crossroads. For people that don’t follow the band, it might be surprising to know that they’re even still around, let alone still very successful. And she reached out to them, and said, ‘Hey, we think there might be a documentary here,’ and they said, ‘Oh, you don’t even know what the documentary is, we’re gonna announce tomorrow in a press conference that we’re suing the FBI.’ So, we scrambled the crew and got them there, and then sat down with the guys in the band for one of the main interviews that ended up being in the movie.

And it was not at all what I expected. They’re hilarious, you’ve seen the movie, so you know, they don’t hold back. And at the same time, they’ve created this whole world that a million people choose to define their lives by and live in. And that’s a really positive thing for them. And then, to see really, an American success story, all of a sudden, because some guy in an office somewhere at the FBI, writes “Juggalos” and “Insane Clown Posse” on the FBI’s annual gang threat assessment, all 7 million people are in a gang.

And you can be walking down the street with a concert t-shirt on, and that’s probable cause and a police officer can and will detain you, photograph you, and put you in the gang database. And now you can’t get a student loan, you can’t get social services. If you’re in the military, you’re going to get kicked out, you can lose custody of your kids, which has happened, all with no criminal record.

And so, to me, that’s a horror movie. That’s terrifying. Because if that can happen to fans of a band, that can happen to fans of other bands, that can happen to horror movie fans, that can happen to … I mean, how many gangs use Dodgers baseball caps to identify themselves? And I think the film kind of follows our journey to try to figure out what’s going on here. And you know, you can talk to the band and talk to Juggalos. And then you can talk to law enforcement, and they’ll talk about Juggalos who are mass murderers. Ultimately, though, you realize you can take a million of anybody, and you’re going to have some pretty terrible people there. To me, that shouldn’t make people criminals. It’s a very slippery slope.

What was the process like trying to balance those elements when you were putting the film together?

It was a challenge. Ultimately, we ended up structuring the film like a court case where each side takes turns presenting their argument, which is what happened with us when we were seeing it. And then I think we ask the audience to make up their own mind, although, to us as the filmmakers, even though I think the film is very even-handed, it definitely lands with a very strong perspective about whether or not this is right or wrong. I’m almost downplaying it; we get into the crimes committed by some Juggalos. They are some of the gnarliest crimes you’ve ever encountered. And when two guys try to chop some dude’s head off and almost succeed with a battle axe, it’s pretty hard to argue that they weren’t influenced by the music.

But at the same time, look at the music; these are guys that sing about their rough childhoods, and addiction and abuse, and some really heavy stuff. And for the people that are fans, this is the only band that does that. So, it really speaks to them, and it’s healing for them, and it provides a family for them. Of course, you’re going to get a certain percentage of those people that are damaged, and that were going to, in my opinion, commit the same crimes anyway. Something else would have triggered it. It’s like when they wanted to ban Taxi Driver because John Hinckley Jr. shot the President. So that’s kind of the journey that we go on, and the balance we were trying to find with the film.

What was it was like being in the band’s inner circle? I’m sure a lot of the Juggalos were also nervous about how they would be portrayed in the film; what was it like trying to earn the trust of everyone involved?

When you tell a Juggalo you’re making a documentary, there’s a certain eye roll and sigh. And that’s part of the reason that the movie took so long, was that we really wanted to take our time and get to know people and spend time with them. And I mean, we go home with the guys and meet their families, you meet Violent J’s mom, and we go home with Juggalos that have lost their kids over this or been fired over this and really had their lives ruined. And I think that trust just takes time.

And, you know, we tried to make it a very collaborative process, a lot of the Juggalos started coming to us with their stories. And once they saw that we were working with the band, and that the band was being so open with us and that their legal team was being so open with us, I think people started to warm up to it.

Was there something that surprised you the most about the band or their fan base over the course of so many years?

Yeah, we went to The Gathering. And all I knew is what I’d seen in the media. And I was like, is our trailer gonna get blown up? What’s going to happen? I was expecting The Road Warrior, and you get there, and they’re the most polite, kind, fun, friendly people I’ve ever encountered. I can remember we’d be at concerts, trying to level the tripod head, and all of a sudden there’s like 10 lighters and like, “Hey, do you need help? What can we do? Do you need us to move somebody out of the way? Look out, there’s a Faygo bottle coming!”

And they were just awesome people who love this thing. They’ve created a huge family around that’s a really positive thing for most of them. And they just want to be left alone. And they accept everybody. I mean, I can’t count the number of times I watched Juggalos meet a complete stranger, like, “Do you need food? Do you need a place to stay?” And in this environment we live in today, here in America, that level of care is something that’s incredibly rare. And I think that comes from the band down to the fans.

I was amazed at how much the band loves their fans and cares about them. And really, truly hurts for them. When they see that some kid has a mural to your music on his back, and he got arrested for that. And you could see the effect that has on the band and how much they cared about taking care of their fans. And I think that truly was their motivation in the lawsuit against the FBI, was to try to prevent things from happening to these people that have been following them around for 30 years.

For many people, if they know ICP at all, it’s because they’ve seen people making fun of the “Magnets” video or they saw The Gathering commercial on SNL. Apart from diehard fans, for the most part, they’re sort of treated it as a joke, but then you have law enforcement treating it deadly seriously. Did making this film help you understand that discrepancy?

Yeah, I think it’s easy to hate people that you don’t know. Honestly, most people want somebody to look down on and kick. And for a lot of people, that’s Juggalos. And now that the movie is finally done, and people are starting to see it, one of the things that’s been amazing to me is that people who thought they weren’t going to like the band, or thought this was going to be something to just make fun of Juggalos, walk out and then are like, “I think I might be a Juggalo.” And that’s awesome.

Because I think if you watch the movie, it’s going to be pretty rare to find someone that doesn’t want that level of support and love and caring in their life. And it’s fun. It’s the best concert I’ve ever been to. Even though people were shooting fireworks at me, it was still the best concert I’ve ever been to.

What do you hope viewers take away from the film?

I think they’re going to discover one of the most amazing American success stories I’ve ever encountered. These are two guys that didn’t graduate from high school. That just by sheer force of will and hard work and passion, created something that’s amazing. And they’re going to be terrified at how easily you can be put on a list by our government, and have your life ruined and how there’s almost nothing you can do about it. And I think for the average person, they might think this is a story that’s happening to someone else.

But by the time you finish the movie, you realize how easily it could happen to you. And I hope people take that away from it, and also to not judge people just because they look different than them and listen to music that they think they don’t like, but that they’re probably going to like after 99 minutes of it.

Has the band seen the film yet? Did they have any feedback?

Yeah, everybody’s seen it. As far as I know, they’re, they’re pretty stoked, Violent J just announced he has congenital heart failure, so they have a lot happening in their world right now. But I mean, they were very involved, we’ve been interviewing them for seven years. So, I hope they’re pretty comfortable with us and what we’ve been doing. The movie’s premiering at Fantastic Fest, and the screening sold out in like three minutes, which is amazing unless you want to see it there. But the good news is, we just announced that on October 26, the movie is going to be playing with Fathom Events, on as of today, 643 theaters. It’s also going to have a little something special, a special introduction from some people that’s going to be pretty exciting to see before the movie. And afterward, we’re going to have a 15-minute concert with the band. Bring lots of Faygo.

United States of Insanity screens in theatres on October 26 via Fathom Events. You can find tickets and a list of participating theatres here.