Interview: Crass co-founder Steve Ignorant on aging, the social power of punk, and his final show with Paranoid Visions at ’77 Montreal

Steve Ignorant (né Steven Williams) is true legend in the punk world. He co-founded the highly influential UK anarcho-punk band Crass with Penny Rimbaud in 1977, ushering in not only a wave of forward-thinking punk rock that tackled issues like nuclear proliferation, corporate greed and feminism, but also a strong, communal DIY ethic that has influenced countless bands and artists in the ensuing decades.

In recent years, Ignorant has been focused on his band Slice of Life, a stripped-down folk project that allows him to address personal issues like the aging process, while also occasionally playing collaborative shows with Irish punk band Paranoid Visions, which include a number of Crass classics.

We caught up with Steve Ignorant to discuss how Crass would have operated if they were starting today, his thoughts on how technology has altered our relationship with music, and why his upcoming appearance at ’77 Montreal will likely be his last performance with Paranoid Visions playing the classic Crass songs.

Steve Ignorant and Paranoid Visions play ’77 Montreal on Friday, July 27th at Parc Jean-Drapeau. Admission is free for children under 10. For tickets and the complete lineup visit the festival’s official site.

How did this collaboration with Paranoid Visions come about?

Do you know what, I really don’t know. [Laughs] No, it’s really strange. I can’t remember how I ended up being with Paranoid Visions. It’s odd. When I was doing The Last Supper tour, Paranoid Visions supported us on a few of the gigs, and Peter Jones, their bass player, he actually arranged the gig for us when we played in Dublin. And then we were meant to play in New York with Paranoid Visions supporting, but there was a cockup with the American work permits. There was a huge backlog, so basically we had to re-arrange the American tour. Paranoid Visions went ahead and did it, and I said to Pete, “Well look, when we do Shepherd’s Bush Empire, the last one, you can support on that if you’d like, to make up for it.”

Then they invited me to do vocals on a song they had written, which turned out to be three songs, that I ended up doing vocals on. Then they did an album and invited me to perform on that. Then there was an album launch and I ended up doing that, and then all this other stuff came along, and all of a sudden there I am in bloody Paranoid Visions!

As far as I was concerned it was just going to be a one-off thing. But I think, obviously, you put the name Steve Ignorant and Paranoid Visions you get more people coming in the door, and you get more offers if you know what I mean. I’m not being big-headed or anything, that’s just the way of it. And really, working with them, it gives me the chance to sort of do a bit of the old rock stuff, and it sort of gives them a bit of a foot in the door to sort of further their career, if you know what I mean. So it works both ways, it’s good.

You’ve also been very active with your Slice of Life project recently, does that fulfill a different sort of creative itch for you?

Slice of Life is something that I’ve wanted to do for years and years and years, probably for about 20 years I’ve been wanting to do it. But I never found the right people to do it with. So working with the two Petes and Carol, it’s the perfect combination. And it allows me to be just a bit more poetic if you know what I mean, and a bit more personal. And it allows me to talk about issues that I feel are important, like the aging process, definitely. I’m taking about stuff like that now, and at some point I’m going to be writing about hip problems and knee problems [laughs]. There’s a lot of walking sticks in my gigs nowadays, so it has to be addressed.

That’s interesting though, you say it almost as a joke but people that came up in a certain era are growing up and a lot are still involved in music and punk but their issues in their 50’s and 60’s are not necessarily the same as when they were 16. Do you think it’s important to address those things?

Yeah, definitely. I mean, and things like testicular cancer and things like that, prostate, certainly cancer has to be addressed because I’ve got a lot of friends who are suffering from it. And I have to wear glasses now, I don’t hear quite as well. I can’t lift my leg up as high as I used to, we’re all going to get it, you know? And I just think it’s worth talking about really. No one else is doing it.

These shows that you’re doing with Paranoid Visions, are these the first time you’ve played Crass songs since the Last Supper show?

Yes, I tend to slip in a couple when I feel it’s appropriate with Slice of Life, a sort of little acoustic version. But I don’t do them all the way through, it’s just a little nod to it. Because, I’ve always felt if David Bowie was still alive and I went to see him perform, and he didn’t perform “Ziggy Stardust,” or you know, “Sweet Thing,” I’d be really pissed off. I just think it’s worth slipping in a couple, but no, that’s the first time that I’ve done them proper, with a full band behind me, since The Last Supper.

What made you want to come back to them? Crass has such a deep back catalogue, what went into selecting the set list for this tour?

Well, the way it happened was last year, the people from Rebellion [Festival] in Blackpool, England, said they’d really like to have something special this year. So Peter Jones got in touch with me and said, “Don’t get annoyed Steve, but how about doing some Crass songs?” And I went, “Oh, for fuck’s sake,” and we went, “No, listen, and we’ll do some Schwartzeneggar, and we’ll do some Stratford Mercenaries as well, and a couple of Paranoid Visions.” And I said, “OK, it would be nice to do a tribute to Vi Subversa from the Poison Girls, she died not long ago, so I wanted to do a cover of one of their songs.” And I said, “I’d like to do a cover of one of me favourite punk songs, which is “Tube Disasters.”” And we got this set together, and it just went mad, blimey. And then of course from that the offers started coming in, the first one of which was Japan. And I knew Paranoid Visions hadn’t been to Japan, and I thought, “Well, I’ve got to give them that opportunity.” So we went and did it, and the same with Canada and with America. But Canada will I think be the last time we do it.

Oh, really?

Because Paranoid Visions are a band in their own right, and I’m with Slice of Life, and it would be a shame for what we do in our respective bands for that to be overshadowed by this. It would be too easy to do that, so yeah I think Canada will be the last time we do it.

People tend to look band on the Crass era with reverence now, what do you think when you look back on your time in the band?

That’s a toughie, what do I think of my time in the band now? What a fantastic upbringing it was. It certainly made me grow up quick. But on the other hand, sometimes I look back on it with a little bit of regret, because I grew up very quickly, so I missed out on a couple of teenage years there, you know? Although I did experiment with certain substances, and females and things, it wasn’t as wild as it could have been. Which is probably lucky, because there’s probably be loads of little Steve Ignorants running around somewhere [laughs]. No, I was always very careful, but no, I haven’t got any regrets, it was fantastic.

When you look at how people take in music today it’s changed so drastically since that DIY ethos that you were working with then. If Crass was starting out today, would your approach have been the same?

I often wonder about that. I think one misconception that people may have is that we deliberately started the DIY scene, and we didn’t, you know? We just used what we had around us. The banners were made out of old bed sheets, we painted everything black because that was what we had in the shed. It’s all held together with gaffer tape, duct tape I think you call it, and nails. It was very ramshackle, but we did it ourselves. But I think that’s really good, it maybe helped people go, “Oh, well I could do that.” And you can, it just takes a little bit of thought and care, you know?

It always sort of got me when you get people putting out very cheap 45’s, and the cover would just be a dreadful squibble, you know? And it would look rough, and all this sort of thing. And I’d think, “Well just because it’s DIY and cheap, it doesn’t have to look like that. You can still make it look as good as anything else.” When I was in bands like Schwartzeneggar and Stratford Mercenaries we got caught in the DIY scene, and once you get in that scene it’s really difficult to get out of it. Because people say, “Oh, you’ve sold out,” and all this sort of stuff. But what you’d find at a lot of those places, and I’m not saying this is all DIY setups, because I’ve been to places where it’s fantastic, but you turn up at some places and only half of the PA would be working. And you’re expected to perform. And I’d say, “Look, if people have come to see us for the first time, and they think that’s what we sound like, they’re not going to come again.” So for the sake of a few bucks or whatever, sort the PA out, because then you’ll get more people wanting to play there. Sort out the toilets, you’ve got to do that, you know? Don’t expect people to sleep on concrete floors and things, anyway, enough ranting.

In general it seems like that DIY ethos, at least for venues, has worked better in Europe where bands say they’re treated much better than in North America. Do you think there’s any reason why that system caught on better in Europe?

I don’t know, it’s the same with England really, because it was very difficult for the English to do that. There’s never been a lot of money in this country, and anything you do that’s sort of creative is frowned upon by the establishment. So they’re not going to put any money towards anything arty or anything like that, so you’re totally on your own. And then there’s the problem with venues over here, you start a venue and the police will come close it down for some reason, they’ll find an excuse. But I don’t know, I think maybe in Europe they just seen to have got it together, they always have done a lot more.

I think back to the earlier question, if Crass started tomorrow, would it be any different, and I sort of often wonder that, because we always saw ourselves as an information bureau, this is pre-internet and all that sort of stuff, and mobile phones. So we were introducing people to things like anti-nuclear stuff, anarchism, feminism. Nowadays you can just google all that, you don’t need to go to a Crass gig. “I just witnessed this song about a thing called anarchy,” “Yeah, I’ve googled it.” So I don’t know, it’s a tough one, that.

But a prime example of how new technology can be good is exemplified by the Sleaford Mods. They’ve just got a little computer and off they go, it’s brilliant. I wish I bloody thought of it!

Do you feel the same sort of spirit in Sleaford Mods as what you had with Crass and what you’re doing today?

Oh, definitely. I think what Jason and Andrew are doing is touching people who are in sort of shit jobs, and all of the stuff those people in shit jobs would like to say to the boss is what the Sleaford Mods are saying for them. It’s very strange, because I thought it’s only going to work in England, because of the subject matter, but it doesn’t, it’s global. It’s just sort of blown me away.

Does the longevity of punk ever surprise you? Did you ever think that these would be songs people would be singing decades later?

Oh, I see what you mean. No, what I think is slightly depressing about it all is that all those songs are still relevant. It’s a bit like reading Charles Dickens. You read Charles Dickens and it’s all about homeless people and children who’ve been exploited, and soup kitchens and all this, and that’s still happening today. And those books were written in 1850, whatever they were.

Do you think punk still has the capacity for radical change? Or has that spirit moved onto to genres like hip hop that are resonating with young people on a huge scale?

Yes, I do, I mean a lot of that music I don’t like, I think it’s because I just can’t understand it, if I can put it that way. But I appreciate the spirit behind it. And I think I can see where they’re coming from. But, I wouldn’t go and see it if you know what I mean.

You can respect it from afar.

Absolutely! And I’ve met some people who are involved in that sort of stuff, and they’re great, because they’re coming from roughly the same area that I am. It’s great. But then again, I’ve met an opera singer who I would call a punk, and people who work in orchestras, and they’ve got the same sort of spirit. It’s everywhere.

What excites you musically these days?

Well I’ve always had an eclectic taste in music, so one day I’ll be listening to West Side Story, the next day it’ll be Billie Holliday, the next it’ll be Sleaford Mods. At the moment I’m heavily into Doo-wop. So the next Slice of Life album we do there’s going to be some of that in it.

What grabs you about Doo-wop?

I think it’s the atmosphere it evokes in me. It’s just instant. It’s a bit like if I listen to let’s say, Miles Davis’ Some Kind of Blue, I’m instantly walking down a street that’s got puddles and neon signs flashing on and off. It’s instant, like a film soundtrack in my head, and I think that’s because when I listen to music, I listen to it for the pleasure of it, but at the same time I’m going, “Oh, I’ll use that bit.” I think that’s the way I approach my songwriting, thinking of it as a movie soundtrack almost.

There’s this notion that the best protest music comes out of harsh, repressive leaderships, do you find that to be the case? And if so, is there any silver lining to what we’re seeing today under Trump and Brexit?

I think that’s probably hit the nail right on the head, that the worse the tyrant in power the more protest songs you’re going to get, and the better. But it’s a shame it has to be that way. I just hope that there are younger people than me out there who are using this time to sort of come up with stuff, because that needs to be said.

Steve Ignorant and Paranoid Visions play ’77 Montreal on Friday, July 27th at Parc Jean-Drapeau. Admission is free for children under 10. For tickets and the complete lineup visit the festival’s official site.